19:26 -!- balthasar_s[AFBC] has joined #ott 20:56 <@Sustainabilizer> X, A'Lb! 21:01 < balthasar_s[AFBC]> ?f=22 21:09 -!- recording_all_this has joined #ott 21:32 <@Sustainabilizer> Welcome, recording_all_this! 21:33 <@Sustainabilizer> (Are you RELATED to kxa who looked in earlier?) 21:38 < recording_all_this> BFTF-related, this is the bicyclesonthemoon.info botcastle. I want to record everything so I can look at it later in case I'm not able to participate directly. 21:40 <@Sustainabilizer> That sounds redundant, and thus molpish. 21:40 <@Sustainabilizer> Please pass my regards to all the bots in the botcastle. 21:40 <@Sustainabilizer> And to the human users. 22:54 -!- balthasar_s[AFBC] is now known as balthasar_s[molpydown] 23:06 * Sustainabilizer is molpying down, too. --- Day changed Tue Jun 23 2015 02:48 -!- balthasar_s[molpydown] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:32 -!- balthasar_s[molpydown] has joined #ott 06:41 <@Sustainabilizer> Good morning. 06:54 < balthasar_s[molpydown]> Molpy up. Good morning. 07:56 -!- Neil_Boekend has joined #ott 07:56 < Neil_Boekend> Hi all y'all! 07:59 <@Sustainabilizer> Hi! 07:59 * Sustainabilizer is having breakfast. Must be in the Sustainable University in 1NP. 08:00 < Neil_Boekend> bon apetit 08:00 <@Sustainabilizer> Merci. 08:00 <@Sustainabilizer> New OtherComic is creepy. 08:01 < Neil_Boekend> I must start with my breakfast too 08:01 < Neil_Boekend> the voice one? 08:01 <@Sustainabilizer> Yeah. 08:04 -!- balthasar_s[molpydown] is now known as balthasar_s 08:04 < Neil_Boekend> Mornip 08:05 < balthasar_s> Hi. 08:06 <@Sustainabilizer> sus_organizer is currently printing out a new poster: http://www.cvh-server.de/~pgerwinski/20150623/ene-poster-data-privacy.pdf 08:07 <@Sustainabilizer> And a new version of the old one: http://www.cvh-server.de/~pgerwinski/20150623/ene-poster-community.pdf 08:08 <@Sustainabilizer> Now guess whose artwork it is. ;) 08:08 * Sustainabilizer is planning to provide an English version, too. Wait for it. 08:08 < Neil_Boekend> German is clear enough for me :D 08:15 -!- taixzo has joined #ott 08:15 < Neil_Boekend> Hi! 08:16 < taixzo> Hello! 08:16 < Neil_Boekend> all molpish? 08:16 <@Sustainabilizer> Hi! 08:17 < taixzo> Yes! But it is quarter past two in the morning, so I may have to coma in a few newpix so as not to be too yappocised. 08:17 < Neil_Boekend> or you could choose to get yappocised 08:17 < taixzo> I am somewhat already :P 08:18 <@Sustainabilizer> I'm terribly de-yappocised. 08:19 <@Sustainabilizer> (8:19 here; up since about 5:30. Steambottle.) 08:20 <@Sustainabilizer> RUNning (by streetcastle) to the Sustainable University now. Later. :Cueball: 08:24 -!- TemporarySparcity has joined #ott 08:25 < Neil_Boekend> mmmm, coffeecancerbaconsemenbabies without the cancerbaconsemenbabies 08:25 < TemporarySparcity> I'm here to be official and molpish. And I've run out of official. 08:25 < Neil_Boekend> Hi 08:26 < TemporarySparcity> um.... the river is small! 08:26 < Neil_Boekend> The sea is big 08:27 < TemporarySparcity> whew. had a mental blank there, couldn't find a sufficiently ottish thing to say for a moment 08:27 < TemporarySparcity> just had to wait for it 08:27 < Neil_Boekend> you drew a cueball? 08:28 < balthasar_s> I have a pile of official lynig on the floor next to my chair. 08:28 < Neil_Boekend> I have to be all officcial in an hour or so because I have to write a motivation for a potential new job. 08:29 < TemporarySparcity> Here's a cueball: o 08:29 < Neil_Boekend> But I can schizo it. 08:29 < Neil_Boekend> yes 08:30 < TemporarySparcity> I'm supposed to be writing fiction but I have to figure out what the internet might look like in several decades 08:30 < Neil_Boekend> brain interfaces, virtual reality a la futurama 08:31 < Neil_Boekend> the controll side is done, the projection back from the internet to the brain is being done (optical nerve hacking) 08:31 < Neil_Boekend> it's currently being used to give people sight back 08:32 < Neil_Boekend> but the same chips can be used to have a fully immersed gaming experience, once it matures to a decent amount of pixels. 08:32 < TemporarySparcity> Brain interfaces are a major plot point yeah. I was thinking more in a structural sense, after various hypothetical economic crises, cyberwarefare crises, and corporations mostly switching to their own private but global networks... 08:33 < TemporarySparcity> and yeah, that tech is really cool. take that, blindness! 08:33 < Neil_Boekend> After you have developed tech to help the handicapped, why not apply it to fun? 08:33 < taixzo> Neil_Boekend: have they figured out color yet? Last I heard it was black-and-white only 08:34 < Neil_Boekend> only color for the moment. 08:34 < Neil_Boekend> and low res 08:34 < Neil_Boekend> like 128 pixels 08:34 < TemporarySparcity> All tech gets applied to fun eventually, it seems. 08:35 < Neil_Boekend> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argus_retinal_prosthesis 08:37 < Neil_Boekend> According to the TED talk I saw yesterday, on data security, we must exclude the USA from the EU internet. 08:37 < Neil_Boekend> to fuck with the NSA 08:38 -!- ggh has joined #ott 08:38 < Neil_Boekend> Hi! 08:38 < taixzo> Hi ggh! 08:38 < TemporarySparcity> hi! 08:38 < balthasar_s> hi, 08:39 < ggh> HI y'all! great to (sorta) see you! 08:39 < TemporarySparcity> yeah I think the hypothetical future internets are far more fragmented. well there's corpnets and the true internet is a dangerous place infested with malware and worse. 08:39 < Neil_Boekend> we're discussing the future of the Internet 08:39 < taixzo> :-) <- a picture of my face 08:39 < TemporarySparcity> for some fiction I plan to write 08:39 < balthasar_s> N_B, how do they want to do it? 08:40 < TemporarySparcity> the internet, not taixzo's face 08:40 < Neil_Boekend> http://forums.xkcd.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=365632 08:40 < Neil_Boekend> a picture of my face 08:40 < ggh> right... I may quietly listen for a bit.... 08:41 < Neil_Boekend> The talk was mainly about OS-es and services like Facebug 08:41 < Neil_Boekend> but I would imagine that cutting the trans ocean lines through the ocean would not be impossible, from a technical standpoint. 08:42 < TemporarySparcity> I was thinking about that the other dip 08:42 < TemporarySparcity> not doing it myself, of course. just about whether someone could segment the internet successfully by cutting such lines 08:42 < TemporarySparcity> and how robust it really is 08:43 < ggh> we think about that in NZ since wikileaks or someone published where our cables come out... 08:43 < TemporarySparcity> also what would happen if say the US or maybe the EU had a major economic problem, what would that do to the internet? 08:43 < Neil_Boekend> there are many lines and cutting them all without the owners agreeing with it is not easy 08:44 < Neil_Boekend> then some servers would go dark 08:44 < TemporarySparcity> not easy as in red tape? or not easy as in well guarded? 08:44 < taixzo> both 08:44 < Neil_Boekend> the are geospaced 08:45 < TemporarySparcity> so it would be like diving into a nuclear cooling pool. you'd get killed by bullets 08:45 < taixzo> also, not easy in that you are talking about cutting through the equivalent of a meter-thick metal rod. How would you even cut that? 08:45 < Neil_Boekend> http://www.technocrates.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/submarine-cable-map.jpg 08:45 < TemporarySparcity> thermite? 08:45 < TemporarySparcity> not that I've thought this through at all! 08:45 < Neil_Boekend> I'd unplug the computer on one of the ends from the UPS 08:46 < Neil_Boekend> If I had the permission from the owner 08:46 < Neil_Boekend> by the way shaped charges work quite well 08:47 < TemporarySparcity> I came across a story actually, in which the banks - in order to halt online banking and stop an economic crisis - basically crippled the internet 08:47 < TemporarySparcity> http://everything2.com/node/category/The+Network+Revenant 08:47 < balthasar_s> There's probably not "a" computer on the end. 08:48 < TemporarySparcity> yeah I have a feeling N_B was making a funny 08:48 < TemporarySparcity> but I could be wrong 08:50 < balthasar_s> Some years ago, with my cousin, we were making ssome fun of the internet, 08:50 < balthasar_s> but with all the umweltish things, what I said may be true, 08:51 < Neil_Boekend> no I was serious. If I wanted to take out a cable the easiest way (assuming permission) is to unplug one of the routers directly on either end of the cable 08:51 < Neil_Boekend> There are routers on both ends of all trans atlantic cables 08:51 < taixzo> I'd imagine the "cable" is actually a bundle of cables, so there would be multiple routers on each end 08:52 < taixzo> but basic idea is the same 08:52 < Neil_Boekend> You get the idea 08:52 < Neil_Boekend> I would not try an unplug every user PC on one of the ends. 08:52 < TemporarySparcity> http://cdn.softlayer.com/innerlayer/Servers_BackCables1.jpg okay just unplug them all 08:52 < Neil_Boekend> that'd be folly 08:53 < Neil_Boekend> They probably have only a few power cables 08:53 < Neil_Boekend> really thick high amp ones 08:53 < TemporarySparcity> ah yeah, you said the UPS. good point. 08:54 < Neil_Boekend> And destroying 08:54 < TemporarySparcity> Send a Terminator, it's the only way to be sure! 08:54 < TemporarySparcity> "This cable... is TERMINATED!" 08:55 * TemporarySparcity gets VITSSÅGEN, JA'd 08:55 < ggh> Where's BlitzGirl now? 08:55 < balthasar_s> There IS such a thing as a terminated network cable, it just means something else :) 08:55 < Neil_Boekend> not seen yet 08:55 < TemporarySparcity> ggh: far enough away 08:55 < Neil_Boekend> yeah balt, I'm wikiing 08:55 < TemporarySparcity> balthasar_s, yes that's what makes it a pun 08:56 < Neil_Boekend> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/10base2_terminator.png/220px-10base2_terminator.png 08:58 < TemporarySparcity> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/02/Cameron-scc-s2-promo.jpg/200px-Cameron-scc-s2-promo.jpg 08:59 < TemporarySparcity> I think I'm running out of sparcity 08:59 < TemporarySparcity> sparcity is temporary 09:00 < TemporarySparcity> density is eternal 09:00 -!- TemporarySparcity is now known as EternalDensity 09:00 < ggh> ba dum dum 09:00 < EternalDensity> thanks ggh 09:02 <@Sustainabilizer> Welcome, everymolpy, to our OTTerCönnchen! 09:02 < Neil_Boekend> Hi 09:02 < Neil_Boekend> The river is small 09:02 <@Sustainabilizer> (Can you see my "ö"? It should be an "o" with two dots above it.) 09:02 <@Sustainabilizer> The sea is big. 09:02 < Neil_Boekend> yep 09:03 < EternalDensity> Yes I see. 09:03 < EternalDensity> There are four dots. 09:03 < taixzo> It works for me! 09:03 < balthasar_s> ö, I can see, 09:03 < EternalDensity> If I cross my eyes. 09:03 < EternalDensity> I can C! 09:03 < Neil_Boekend> öö 09:04 < EternalDensity> To pun, or not 2 pun. 09:04 < balthasar_s> Also, yesterday afternoon I redundantly announced the Cönnchen in the OTT facebug group. 09:04 < EternalDensity> molpish thanks 09:05 -!- Sustainabilizer changed the topic of #ott to: Data Privacy Concerns Us All. Discuss. 09:05 < recording_all_this> The dots are even visible frm the moon. 09:05 < EternalDensity> The Great Wall of China is visible from the moon if you take a picture of it with you. 09:06 < Neil_Boekend> o.O I assumed the recorder was a bot 09:06 < EternalDensity> The Great Wall of China is not private. 09:06 <@Sustainabilizer> Let me start be describing the location here in Bochum. 09:06 <@Sustainabilizer> It's a seaish room, and empty. 09:07 <@Sustainabilizer> Just me, sitting at a table, with my Time Accessor. 09:07 <@Sustainabilizer> The posters haven't arrived yet, nor has any non-OTTer audience. 09:07 < Neil_Boekend> aww 09:08 < EternalDensity> :( 09:09 * taixzo is not sure whether "posters" refer to people or wall pictures in this context 09:09 < EternalDensity> I figure the latter 09:09 < balthasar_s> Aren't we all bots ? :) That's me recording this. I need this. 09:09 < EternalDensity> Since we are the former sort of posters 09:10 < Neil_Boekend> mm, I need more coffecancerbaconsemenbabies, hold the cancerbaconsemenbabies 09:11 <@Sustainabilizer> EternalDensity is right. 09:11 < EternalDensity> rare! :D 09:12 < EternalDensity> Suppose one or more of us went into politics some dip. (steambottle) Would we want the world to be able to have access to this conversation? Should the world have access to this conversation? 09:12 <@Sustainabilizer> The world *has* access to this conversation. 09:12 < Neil_Boekend> NSA is watching 09:12 < Neil_Boekend> or wait, this is IRC 09:12 < Neil_Boekend> it may not be watching 09:13 < EternalDensity> Yes. But that's not quite the same as the media doing an article about it 09:13 <@Sustainabilizer> sus_organizer is currently printing out a poster: http://www.cvh-server.de/~pgerwinski/20150623/ene-poster-data-privacy.pdf 09:13 <@Sustainabilizer> It's in German, sorry. We'll try to translate it during this OTTerCönnchen. 09:14 < EternalDensity> Some people want to keep things private because they are unmolpish, or embarassing. And some because they are illegal. and sometimes things are made illegal which oughtn't. That makes things tricky. And unmolpish. 09:16 <@Sustainabilizer> Yeah. 09:16 < ggh> I don't intend to go into politics, but I fear that if I ever had an "important" idea, that unmolpish people would "own" me if my friends were listed for all to see. 09:16 <@Sustainabilizer> Yeah. (Redundant) 09:17 <@Sustainabilizer> ggh: That's why we need privacy. It enables you to tell your important idea without anyone knowing your real identity. 09:17 < Neil_Boekend> http://www.ted.com/talks/mikko_hypponen_how_the_nsa_betrayed_the_world_s_trust_time_to_act?language=en 09:17 < Neil_Boekend> The TED talk I talked about a few lines back 09:18 -!- karhell has joined #ott 09:18 < Neil_Boekend> Hi! 09:18 < karhell> hi ! 09:18 <@Sustainabilizer> Hi! 09:18 < EternalDensity> Yeah, ideas can be very dangerous, especially to those who voice them. 09:18 < EternalDensity> also hi 09:18 < recording_all_this> Hi. 09:18 < ggh> The flip side is that some folks are horrid amidst anonymity. It's like how drivers behave seeing only the outside of cars. 09:19 < EternalDensity> Yeahhhhh 09:19 < ggh> Hi karhell! 09:19 < EternalDensity> anonymity can make the internet very unmolpish. steambottle humans 09:20 < Neil_Boekend> yep, but without it some topics can not be discussed honestly 09:20 < karhell> i'd place emphasis on "can". Depends on the person 09:20 < EternalDensity> indeed 09:20 < Neil_Boekend> The XKCD forums do quite well 09:21 < Neil_Boekend> despite the fact that some topics are quite controversial in large parts of the world 09:21 < Neil_Boekend> especially LSR 09:22 < Neil_Boekend> and the thread LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!  09:22 < EternalDensity> A problem is that internet anonymity is generally enough that people will misues it, but not really enough to protect their identity against a sufficient threat. 09:22 < Neil_Boekend> but on the forums the down sides of anonymity are being mitigated by good moderation 09:22 < EternalDensity> good point. 09:23 < EternalDensity> (that is, we can assume the acronym agencies know who most people are, or could if they needed to) 09:23 < karhell> Yep, xkcd has some of the best mods I've met 09:23 <@Sustainabilizer> Our posters have arrived. :) 09:23 < Neil_Boekend> yaay 09:23 < EternalDensity> I have't been in that thread. I don't think I fit any of the acronym letters 09:24 < Neil_Boekend> LSR? 09:24 < EternalDensity> the other 09:24 < taixzo> Love Sex and Relationships 09:24 < EternalDensity> technically I guess I don't fit that acronym either, lol 09:24 < Neil_Boekend> I believe it stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Trans and a few groups that I can't come up with 09:25 < karhell> I get LGBT, but what does IQQA stand for ? 09:25 < karhell> >.< ninja'd 09:25 < EternalDensity> yeah. but the point is that I don't need a safe space because everywhere else is generally safe enough for someone like me 09:25 < Neil_Boekend> That's called luck 09:25 < karhell> yep but stuff like gender identity is a particularly volatile subject 09:26 < EternalDensity> that is the answer to "why isn't the a safe space for straight white cis-males?" is "that's called everywhere else". 09:26 < EternalDensity> indeed karhell 09:26 < karhell> I've seen the bay12 fora explode because of that 09:26 < Neil_Boekend> but basically that thread is a safespace for all genders and sexualities that many bible people dissaprove of 09:26 < balthasar_s> Gender identity: English speakers are lucky, 09:27 < ggh> heh 09:27 < EternalDensity> I've only been in a few bits of bay12. woo dorfs! 09:27 < karhell> ^^ 09:27 * EternalDensity is a 'bible person' 09:27 < Neil_Boekend> many, not all 09:28 < balthasar_s> In English it's possible to have entire seaish conversation without revealing anyone's gender. 09:28 < Neil_Boekend> the word Katholics eluded me 09:28 < karhell> generally those that fit the word "bigoted". Most bible people I know don't 09:28 < EternalDensity> indeed balthasar_s 09:28 < Neil_Boekend> i'm sorry 09:29 < balthasar_s> Usually the gender information is only in Names and personal pronouns. You can avoid them. 09:29 < balthasar_s> This is not possible in my language. 09:29 < karhell> ah, indeed, you mentioned that last time, if I'm not mistaken ? 09:29 <@Sustainabilizer> Our seaish monitor has arrived. :) 09:29 < EternalDensity> approve or disapprove, I try not to tell people I don't know what they should do relationshipwise. 09:30 < karhell> And all the better for everyone, ED ^^ 09:30 < Neil_Boekend> That's a good standpoint 09:30 < Neil_Boekend> unless they ask for advice 09:31 < EternalDensity> because if I disagree with someone's lifestyle, doing so impersonally over the internet will a) not make them change their mind b) hurt their feelings for no good c) get people mad at me 09:31 < EternalDensity> yeah advice. that's a delicate issue too. 09:31 < karhell> that's... a pretty good summary 09:31 < Neil_Boekend> Indeed 09:31 < EternalDensity> thanks. it's as if I've thought this through beforehand. but I haven't. 09:32 < Neil_Boekend> although on other subjects the XKCD forums can be a place to discuss 09:33 < EternalDensity> also d) I don't really have any authority, lacking applicable life experience 09:33 < karhell> An outsider's point of view is also interesting to take into account :) 09:34 < EternalDensity> good point. and one which reinforces itself! 09:34 < EternalDensity> given that you're an outsider to my own life, giving your point of view :D 09:34 < karhell> true ^^ 09:34 < balthasar_s> N_B: "large parts of the world / especially LSR", I tried to find out what part of word LSR is. 09:35 < Neil_Boekend> Love/sex/relationships 09:35 < EternalDensity> oops 09:35 < karhell> http://forums.xkcd.com/viewforum.php?f=46 that part 09:35 < balthasar_s> Yes, I notised it later. 09:35 < EternalDensity> haha 09:35 < Neil_Boekend> Some bigot's heads would explode there 09:35 < karhell> indeed ^^ 09:35 < EternalDensity> *bigots 09:36 < EternalDensity> unless you mean a bigot with multiple heads. 09:36 < EternalDensity> wait, I mean bigots' 09:36 < EternalDensity> sorry 09:36 < karhell> a bigot hydra ? o___O 09:36 < EternalDensity> bigots' heads. that should be right. sorry I get particular about apostrophes 09:37 < Neil_Boekend> yep youre right 09:37 < Neil_Boekend> a hydra 09:37 < EternalDensity> Hail Hydra! 09:37 < Neil_Boekend> whispers in your ear*hail hydra* 09:37 < EternalDensity> :D 09:38 * karhell runs away 09:38 <@Sustainabilizer> Hey! 09:38 < Neil_Boekend> Karhell, come back. Hydra is cool. We have dental 09:38 * karhell turns round and runs back 09:39 < EternalDensity> so who else watches Agents of SHIELD? Actually that is RELATED to data privacy... 09:39 < karhell> hydra dentist has got to be one hell of a job >;< 09:39 < karhell> >.<* 09:39 < EternalDensity> haha 09:39 < Neil_Boekend> Haven't caught up with it 09:39 < EternalDensity> pull one tooth and two grow in its place! 09:41 < EternalDensity> how to television. 1) blitz 2) wait for it 3) wait harder 09:41 < karhell> 4) find out the show has been cancelled >.> 09:41 < Neil_Boekend> or wait untill it gets shoved on netflix 09:41 < EternalDensity> :( **dish 09:41 < EternalDensity> sometimes I do 4) as step 0) 09:41 < Neil_Boekend> all things must end 09:41 < Neil_Boekend> an then there is fanart 09:41 < karhell> yup, still buggered about Forever :( 09:42 < EternalDensity> Sarah Connor Chronicles I came it after it was long **ded but it was just as **dish 09:42 < Neil_Boekend> I'm more buggered about Firefly and Dollhouse 09:43 < EternalDensity> I'm kinda okay with Firefly now because a lot of what the fandom is now is because of its sad history. 09:43 < EternalDensity> Dollhouse, that kinda **ded okay to me. Sure we could do with more. 09:43 < EternalDensity> But we can't really have more of THREE shows that all feature Summer Glau. 09:44 < EternalDensity> unless Time travel is real 09:44 < Neil_Boekend> it **ded okay because Joss anticipated an early cutoff 09:44 < EternalDensity> or cloning 09:44 < Neil_Boekend> or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Dated_a_Robot 09:45 < EternalDensity> I could do with a little more Jeff 1000 09:46 < EternalDensity> anyhow, Summer has a riverish humanling now, which is molpish. 09:46 < ggh> I'm still mourning Best of the West https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_the_West 09:46 < ggh> We need more sustainable tv 09:46 < EternalDensity> I wouldn't mind more stargate of any sort. Except infinity. which does not exist and never did. 09:46 < EternalDensity> yes ggh. sustainable tv! 09:47 < EternalDensity> I guess Doctor Who counts as sustainable tv but I don't watch it. 09:47 < Neil_Boekend> It's awesomefull 09:47 < EternalDensity> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-running_TV_shows_by_category 09:48 < balthasar_s> I wonder, how exactly will be the discussions here on IRC related to what's happenning in the room> 09:48 < balthasar_s> They will see what we write here? 09:48 < EternalDensity> DW is too seaish a blitz for me 09:48 < EternalDensity> oh, dinner is happening :( 09:48 < balthasar_s> Will we know what's going on there? 09:48 -!- EternalDensity is now known as ED_afl 09:48 < ED_afl> away from leopard 09:49 < karhell> Bon appétit, ED 09:50 < ggh> Poster's pretty, even if I can't read it - much is clear. 09:52 < ggh> and much looks to be super-useful.... 09:52 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 09:53 < ED_leopad> Well? 09:54 < Neil_Boekend> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Fleetwood_round_table_wishing_well_-_DSC06564.JPG 09:54 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55 < karhell> Guess ED fell down the well >.< 09:56 * karhell throws a rope 09:56 * Neil_Boekend throws one end of a rope but holds the other end 09:57 < ggh> how do you do that? the * thing? 09:57 < balthasar_s> me 09:57 < Neil_Boekend> slash me 09:57 * karhell slashes neil 09:57 < Neil_Boekend> thanks 09:58 < Neil_Boekend> needed that to wake up 09:58 < karhell> sorry, couldn't resist ^^ 09:58 < Neil_Boekend> you're a superconductor 09:58 < karhell> I walked right into that one, didn't I ? 09:58 < karhell> So a superconductor walks into a bar ... 09:59 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 09:59 < Neil_Boekend> is was about time that someone used that line on me 09:59 < ED_leopad> Oh my internet went m*stard 09:59 < taixzo> also, you can use /say to utter a line starting with a slash 09:59 < taixzo> /me <- for example 10:00 < karhell> blech, mustard flavored internet >.< 10:00 * ggh 10:00 < ggh> oh! 10:00 < karhell> almost there ^^ 10:00 * ggh smiles 10:00 < taixzo> :D 10:00 < Neil_Boekend> yes! you done did it 10:00 < karhell> yay \o/ 10:01 < Neil_Boekend> / 10:01 < balthasar_s> Recently a 5 year old kid suddenly said to me "good morning mr. conductor!" 10:01 < karhell> Makes sense if you were leading an orchestra ^^ 10:02 < taixzo> or a train! 10:02 < karhell> or both >.< 10:02 * taixzo used to think that trains followed where conductors went 10:03 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03 < balthasar_s> http://xkcd.com/1539/ is related. 10:03 < ggh> I wish I could think of the proper circuitry joke 10:04 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 10:04 < ED_leopad> Tonight is my share something from the Bible during dinner night, and I found something related to privacy. http://bible.com/114/lev.19.17.nkjv ‘You shall not hate your brother in your heart. 10:04 -!- mscha has joined #ott 10:05 < karhell> Hi mscha ! 10:05 < ggh> Hi mscha! 10:05 < Neil_Boekend> hi 10:05 < ED_leopad> hi mschalogger 10:05 < mscha> Good molpy! 10:05 <@Sustainabilizer> Hi mscha! 10:06 < ED_leopad> Am i offline again? 10:06 < ggh> Is there a video feed I'm supposed to be tuned in to? (aside from Monsters vs Aliens to keep the Little Wonder occupied.) 10:07 < ED_leopad> Oh good. I have bad luck with irc connections and ottermeets 10:07 < Neil_Boekend> not that I know of 10:08 < ED_leopad> I could take a video of me very badly singing Molpish Met OTTerCon. I suppose. If my life was at steak. 10:08 < Neil_Boekend> yes ED you're offline 10:08 < Neil_Boekend> we can't read you 10:08 < ED_leopad> I'm glad we cleared that up. 10:10 -!- karhell is now known as karhell_teatime 10:10 < mscha> A good thing we *don't* have video, as Sustainabilizer is apparently n-u.de... 10:10 < ggh> Wirklich? 10:11 -!- PraktiKante has joined #ott 10:12 < Neil_Boekend> welcome 10:12 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13 < PraktiKante> hello everybody! 10:13 <@Sustainabilizer> Hi. PraktiKante is sitting on the right of me in Bochum. 10:13 <@Sustainabilizer> (And sus_organizer is sitting on the left of me, trying to tame the seaish monitor.) 10:13 < ggh> Hi PraktiKante! 10:13 < PraktiKante> hi ggh 10:14 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 10:14 < balthasar_s> IP suggests Netherlands. 10:14 < balthasar_s> Also, welcome. 10:14 < ED_leopad> Will be shortly travelling outside mobile coverage for a bit 10:14 < PraktiKante> okay, ED_leopad 10:14 < ED_leopad> which means my connection wikk be better than at home lol 10:14 < ED_leopad> *will 10:15 < ED_leopad> except when it isn't 10:15 < PraktiKante> wait do you have better mobile coverage than at home? 10:16 < taixzo> My phone had better internet than my house when we had DSL 10:17 < PraktiKante> yes, that's sad sometimes. On the other hand mobile speeds are getting increasingly better. 5G is coming :) 10:17 < ED_leopad> No but at home it drops out a lot 10:17 < ED_leopad> Bad noise ratio 10:17 < PraktiKante> oh, okay 10:18 < taixzo> I now have slower mobile speeds than I used to because of my new phone 10:18 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18 -!- karhell_teatime is now known as karhell 10:19 < karhell> Hi, PraktiKante ! 10:19 < PraktiKante> hi, karhell ! 10:20 < taixzo> (it's a Jolla, which only has EU 3G frequencies, so it's stuck on 2G in the US) 10:22 -!- svenman has joined #ott 10:22 < svenman> Molpy up! 10:23 < ggh> Hi svenman! 10:23 < PraktiKante> oh, I too have a Jolla :) awesome! 10:24 < karhell> Hi, svenman ! 10:24 < taixzo> Hi svenman! 10:25 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 10:25 < Neil_Boekend> @ED: your Navajo code talker should shout louder, for a better SNR. 10:26 <@Sustainabilizer> Now this IRC is visible on our seaish monitor. 10:26 < Neil_Boekend> yaay 10:26 < Neil_Boekend> hi seaish monitor 10:26 < svenman> Hi all! 10:26 <@Sustainabilizer> Now everyone in the audience can see what we're discussing. 10:26 <@Sustainabilizer> Hi, svenman! 10:26 < Neil_Boekend> Hi Svenman 10:26 < ED_leopad> Hi seaish monster! 10:27 <@Sustainabilizer> "everyone in the audience" = + sus_organizer + PraktiKante + myself. 10:27 < ggh> Speaking of SNR... privacy though... Sometimes I wonder if the best defense is a good offense. It's so hard to keep information private, but so easy to generate lots and lots of information that doesn't mean anything. 10:28 < ED_leopad> Hmm 10:28 < Neil_Boekend> indeed 10:29 < karhell> iirc, that's ucim's tactic 10:29 < Neil_Boekend> but that also decreases the usefullness for the intended users (aka humans) 10:29 < ggh> Like those folks that used to put terrorist buzzwords at the end of all their emails to annoy the letter agencies. ED, can you give your thingie a facebook page? 10:30 < Neil_Boekend> I think Facebook has a policy against that sort of thing 10:30 < Neil_Boekend> male anatomy and such 10:30 < balthasar_s> Excapt, Information about you is not only what you generate but also what others do. 10:30 < Neil_Boekend> especially pictures 10:30 < balthasar_s> And you can't control them. 10:31 < Neil_Boekend> not yet... 10:31 < svenman> ggh: The meaningless information may be stripped away with good data mining algorithms. 10:31 -!- AndChat|409344 has joined #ott 10:31 < AndChat|409344> Anyone watch Person of Interest? I recently blitzed it. It is about a computer machine for detecting who is going to be a victim or perpetrator of violent crime. From NSA data feeds. 10:31 < Neil_Boekend> welcome &chat 10:31 < AndChat|409344> Oh 10:32 < AndChat|409344> Derp 10:32 -!- AndChat|409344 is now known as ED_leopad2 10:32 < Neil_Boekend> Hi EDclone 10:33 < ED_leopad2> so somehow i didn't disconnect on both ends 10:33 < balthasar_s> There is information about me, for example, that can be found in the internet, about me, and I have no control over it. 10:33 < ED_leopad2> Anyhow, computers may get around seaish information noise 10:34 < balthasar_s> And having a not so common name makes it easier, 10:34 < ED_leopad2> but computers can also generate seaish infirmation noise as i have recently demonstrated 10:34 < ggh> But they'd have to work at it, and that might slow them down. 10:34 <@Sustainabilizer> sus_organizer thinks that our IRC chat isn't enough of an "eye-catcher". 10:34 < ED_leopad2> inf0mztion i mean. Argh that's worse 10:35 <@Sustainabilizer> So I'm presenting "bb" there, now. 10:35 < ggh> bb? 10:35 < ED_leopad2> Information. 10:35 < ED_leopad2> Well we have probably used enough keywords to get noticed :P 10:36 < Neil_Boekend> yeah probably 10:36 <@Sustainabilizer> bb is a demo program for aa. 10:36 < ED_leopad2> oooh. 10:36 < ED_leopad2> i want to see more of hh. 10:36 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:37 < Neil_Boekend> and since some of the users are not in the USA the NSA has the legal right to spy AND since some of the users are in the USA the NSA has the technical possibility to spy 10:37 <@Sustainabilizer> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAlib 10:37 < ED_leopad2> Bye 10:37 <@Sustainabilizer> ED_leopad2: Bye! 10:37 -!- ED_leopad2 is now known as ED_leopard 10:37 -!- ED_leopard is now known as ED_leopad 10:38 < ED_leopad> Oops 10:38 < ggh> ooh - aa is neato 10:38 <@Sustainabilizer> ED_leopad: Welcome back! ;) 10:38 < balthasar_s> My name is not common in my country, and the few people that have it, have it spelled differently. There is almost certainly no one else with the same first and last name. 10:39 < balthasar_s> It's easy to do a search for the name and fid out my schools, competitions, awards, rtc. 10:39 < ED_leopad> And because you keep mentioning the NSA 10:39 < Neil_Boekend> My real name is incredibly common in my country 10:39 < ED_leopad> it was me, Barry! I was the ED_leopad! 10:39 < ggh> but you could make 28 people with that name 10:40 < balthasar_s> And no matter how much I generate I can't cover that information. 10:40 < balthasar_s> etc, not rtc. 10:40 < ggh> no, but eventually people won't believe stuff they snoop on the internet' 10:41 < ED_leopad> I'm sure i've given out more than eniugh details to be easily doxxed 10:41 < ggh> and balthasar_s the porn star might be a more fun fiction to believe than the one who won your awards 10:41 < ED_leopad> Hmmm. 10:42 < karhell> TMI ? ^^ 10:42 < balthasar_s> If the official organizer of an event tells about people who took part in it, why wouldn't you believe? 10:42 < ED_leopad> exactly karhell 10:43 < ED_leopad> I assume we would need bots for that, i don't have time for fake internetting. But forums don't like bots pretending to be posters. And the resulting information noise loads down the internet. 10:44 < ED_leopad> Also there was an xkcd about online dating bots i think. 10:44 <@Sustainabilizer> There's no TMI for those who really want to parse all that (NSA and such). 10:44 < balthasar_s> Also, ggh, I just realised, I'm kind of doing what you suggested, on the OTT, all that moonbase stuff and so on... 10:45 < ED_leopad> Also the bots might try to take over. So we would need to be ready to throw bicycles at them 10:45 < ggh> Really??! Next thing you'll tell me that HES isn't a hamply! 10:46 < Neil_Boekend> @ED: https://xkcd.com/935/ 10:46 < ED_leopad> Cue nasa mission to send nsa operatives to moon to see what balthasar_s is really up to 10:46 < ED_leopad> thanks Neil_Boekend 10:46 < Neil_Boekend> you're welcome 10:46 < karhell> whatever gets the space program going, I'm all for it ! ^^ 10:46 < ED_leopad> Yes 10:47 < PraktiKante> i'll be back. soon. (fixing some network stuff) 10:47 -!- PraktiKante has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:48 -!- PraktiKante has joined #ott 10:48 < ED_leopad> On the other hand i hardly have a grasp of my identity. Who am i really? I need more friends so i spend less time in my head. But it's comfortable and easy there. 10:48 < svenman> Generating fake information may have other undesirable side effects. 10:49 < PraktiKante> controlled misinformation is sometimes quite useful. 10:49 < svenman> Like getting on a no-fly list because of fake information that is mistaken for legit. 10:50 < ggh> But let's say I want to make money. And you want that award to not come up when you get cyberstalked. What should I do? And do people like to make money? 10:50 < ED_leopad> So long as the fake isn't too outrageous 10:51 < PraktiKante> if you knowingly put fake, but also lame information about you online then you are good. 10:51 < balthasar_s> what do you mean by lame? 10:51 < ED_leopad> Careful, the word lame is not pc now. 10:51 < PraktiKante> pretend you are living a normal life. 10:52 < karhell> I'm already having trouble living _one_ normal life, let alone inventing several >.> 10:52 < ED_leopad> A dull ordinary boring life. But not toooo unremarkable. That stands out. 10:52 < PraktiKante> that's right :D 10:52 < balthasar_s> Ok, that makes ense. 10:53 < taixzo> ggh: I won an award under this pseudonym two years ago 10:53 < ED_leopad> Oh look this guy with a clean police record and no complaints ever, must be in witness protection! 10:54 < karhell> "Innocence doesn't exist. There are only degrees of culpability" ? 10:54 < taixzo> I'm fairly well-known as taixzo in the Maemo/Meego/Sailfishos development community, but that's completely separate from offline lide 10:54 < ggh> taixzo: nicely done ;) 10:54 < taixzo> life 10:55 < taixzo> (which also means I can't do things like mention that work in a job interview as that would link the personas) 10:55 < Neil_Boekend> my online and offline personae are quite connected for anyone who has root acces to Google 10:56 < karhell> Same here for anyone bored enough to connec the dots 10:56 < balthasar_s> ...and with this we get back to xkcd 1539. 10:56 -!- AndChat|409344 has joined #ott 10:56 -!- AndChat|409344 is now known as ED_ping 10:56 < ED_ping> Welp 10:56 < Neil_Boekend> pong 10:57 < karhell> ED is multiplyong, fetch a net! 10:57 < Neil_Boekend> ED is a tribble? 10:57 < karhell> Oh dear, we're ch*rped 10:58 < Neil_Boekend> To bad. I really liked this planet 10:58 < ggh> I haven't been nearly careful enough with keeping a separate online persona, but I'm starting to doubt I'll ever be interesting, so it won't matter. 10:59 < Neil_Boekend> I simply assume I am on some kind of watchlist because I theoretically know how to make a nuclear bomb 10:59 < Neil_Boekend> only uranium, mind you. implosion timing is difficult 11:00 < Neil_Boekend> only gun types for me 11:00 < svenman> Neil_Boekend: you are *now* 11:00 < Neil_Boekend> You all are now. Welcome! 11:00 <@Sustainabilizer> Everyone who has ever used Tor is on a watchlist. (So I am.) 11:00 < taixzo> my terminal font is weird 11:01 < balthasar_s> Are there any cool watches on this list> 11:01 < taixzo> I read that as "you are *nom*" 11:01 < Neil_Boekend> yes you are nom for dragons 11:01 <@Sustainabilizer> taixzo: Bon appetit! 11:01 < svenman> ow now now now now 11:01 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:01 < taixzo> balthasar_s: the Pebble Time? 11:02 < karhell> given my interests, counting the watchlists I'm _not_ on would probably be faster ^^ 11:03 < balthasar_s> I wonder , the Tor watchlist, what are they looking for? 11:03 < karhell> looking for something to look for, I suppose 11:03 < karhell> gotta justify those salaries ^^ 11:04 < Neil_Boekend> and the expenditure in datacenters 11:04 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 11:04 < ggh> I haven't used Tor yet, but I'm planning to soon. Any precautions I should take? 11:04 -!- ED_ping has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:04 < karhell> yup, wave and smile to the black SUV outside your window 11:05 < karhell> ^^ 11:05 -!- AndChat-409344 has joined #ott 11:05 -!- AndChat-409344 is now known as ED_tribble 11:05 < Neil_Boekend> bring them cookies, that is bound to weird them out 11:05 < ED_tribble> Grrr 11:06 < balthasar_s> I have a roof window. If I saw a SUV through it, I'd be really surprised. 11:06 < ggh> diveroll! 11:06 -!- AndChat-409344 has joined #ott 11:06 < karhell> whan you can bicycle to the moon, a rooftop SUV should hardly be surprising ^^ 11:07 < Neil_Boekend> The orbital observatory called "moon" has to suffice 11:07 < balthasar_s> Anyway, I just realised: 11:08 -!- AndChat|409344 has joined #ott 11:08 < svenman> karhell: You can't bicycle to the moon, silly. You need a train for that. 11:08 -!- AndChat|409344 is now known as ED_Cookies 11:09 < balthasar_s> If you use Tor so they don't know who you are, 11:09 < karhell> svenman: aah, right, I thought it was a bit silly ^^ 11:09 < ED_Cookies> oh come on! 11:09 < svenman> karhell: Which gets loaded into a rocket. 11:09 < taixzo> If you use Tor your ISP can see that you are connecting to a Tor exit node 11:10 < balthasar_s> but one day, just once, you make a mistake, 11:11 < balthasar_s> And then you access something that only the anonymous version of you knows about, 11:11 < Neil_Boekend> Svenman, François Gissy begs to differ 11:11 < karhell> as taixzo said, it's possible to know that you're using TOR, but incredibly difficult to know what your're using it for 11:11 -!- AndChat|409344 has joined #ott 11:11 < balthasar_s> then someone can find out who you are. 11:11 -!- AndChat|409344 is now known as ED_statstardish 11:11 < ED_statstardish> Too close to the tower 11:12 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:12 < Neil_Boekend> eh, ED procreates even faster than tribbles 11:12 < karhell> it's Agent ED Smith ^^ 11:12 < ED_statstardish> Me too 11:12 < ggh> Ack. The Little Wonder just sat in the mince pie. 11:12 -!- ED_statstardish is now known as ED_virus 11:13 < balthasar_s> And this is true, actually Exactly this way I found out a secret information about one OTTer just by looking on my server logs. 11:13 < karhell> ggh : make sure you don't bake Little Wonder 11:13 -!- ED_tribble has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:13 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 11:14 < svenman> That guy may be on to something, maybe he and balthasar should team up? 11:14 -!- AndChat-409344 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:15 < karhell> which guy ? 11:16 < svenman> Francois Gissy. Broke a speed record with a rocket-powered bicycle. 11:17 < ggh> what do server logs log? 11:17 < karhell> aaah, right 11:17 -!- ED_Cookies has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:17 < svenman> Without significantly leaving the earth's surface, though, I think. 11:17 <@Sustainabilizer> ggh: Blitzing everything. 11:17 <@Sustainabilizer> EVERYTHING. 11:17 < karhell> depends on the server, but anything transmittable electronically can be logged 11:18 < ggh> If I visit a website, they hsave my name and location? 11:18 -!- ED_clone1190 has joined #ott 11:19 * ED_clone1190 sighs 11:19 < karhell> probably not, but that can be deduced from your IP 11:19 < Neil_Boekend> yes and no 11:19 <@Sustainabilizer> They have your IP address. How much they can derive from that, depends. 11:19 < karhell> and that is something they DO have 11:19 < balthasar_s> On the OTT there are BFTF frames posted. If you load a newpage that has a frame on it, I can see it. 11:20 < ED_clone1190> Yep 11:20 <@Sustainabilizer> In Germany, we are close to establishing a law called "Vorratsdatenspeicherung" which allows to derive your name and location from your IP address. 11:20 < karhell> o_o 11:20 < taixzo> IP-based positioning is very accurate if you are in say a house. But if you're using a mobile data connection your ip address is shared in like a 400 mile radius 11:20 < Neil_Boekend> under ipv6 your phone has a unique IP adress 11:21 -!- ED_virus has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:21 < balthasar_s> I can see what was loaded, from where (which newpage), at what time, from which IP (and therefore location), and the browser (but this can be faked) 11:21 <@Sustainabilizer> In France, this law (Vorratsdatenspeicherung) already exists. It was already there before the Charlie Hebdo terror attack. 11:21 < Neil_Boekend> with the IP logs from your provider this will be connected to your name 11:21 <@Sustainabilizer> The official reason for the law is to protect against terror attacks. 11:21 < karhell> oh aye, forgot about that >.< 11:21 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:22 < karhell> but that info is only accessible by a judge's order 11:23 <@Sustainabilizer> Or by criminals. 11:24 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 11:24 < ED_leopad> If you play my hotdog, i can see it 11:24 < taixzo> Neil_Boekend: my carrier does not provide IPv6 :/ 11:24 < ED_leopad> Ok this is far worse than home 11:24 < Neil_Boekend> you hot dog 11:24 < ggh> so, balthasar, you can see that someone in Wellington downloaded your frames using Chrome. And if you have a warrant or a hacker friend, you know my nam and address. 11:25 < ggh> name 11:26 <@Sustainabilizer> If you have a fixed IP (like I have), balthasar_s can track your activity on his server. 11:26 <@Sustainabilizer> For me that's okay, concerning balthasar_s and my OTTish activities. 11:26 < karhell> Indeed, but most people don't have a fixed IP 11:26 < ggh> like the other sites I go to? 11:26 <@Sustainabilizer> Yeah. 11:27 <@Sustainabilizer> If you don't have a fixed IP, Vorratsdatenspeicherung is your [s]friend[/s] foe. 11:27 < balthasar_s> Yes, And if you're quoting the frame, and preview it, I can see that it was seen from the post edit page and the post edit page URL has a post id in it. 11:27 -!- azule has joined #ott 11:28 < karhell> Hi azule ! 11:28 <@Sustainabilizer> And then balthasar_s knows the OTTer name. 11:28 -!- ED_clone1190 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:28 <@Sustainabilizer> Hi, azule! 11:28 < azule> I'm, uh, not here... 11:28 < azule> Fine, hello, I'm here and so are you 11:28 < azule> Why aren't you in bed? 11:28 < azule> *cough* 11:28 < Neil_Boekend> note: this is standard. It's not that balthasar is an evil creep. If you view an image stored on a server then the server logs that data 11:28 < Neil_Boekend> Hi azule 11:28 < karhell> Indeed 11:29 < karhell> It just demonstrates how much can be known just from loading a web page 11:29 < azule> we talking server logs? 11:29 < taixzo> Hi azule! 11:29 < Neil_Boekend> yeps 11:29 -!- ED_clone1190 has joined #ott 11:29 < karhell> what becomes important is _who_ has access to these logs 11:29 < ED_clone1190> My leopad crashed! 11:29 < ggh> Hi azule! I'm just learning that balthasar knows that I've watched Simon Barnett dance the tango on Dancing with the Stars like 80 times... 11:29 < azule> I have access...if only people would visit me :( 11:29 < azule> ;) 11:30 < ED_clone1190> tmi ggh 11:30 <@Sustainabilizer> karhell: Yeah! :Cueball: 11:30 < svenman> Hi azule! 11:30 < balthasar_s> Or even if you don,t quote the frame but post something else and in the preview you have the frame I still get the information. 11:30 < azule> why is balthasar all knowing? 11:30 < azule> all powerful too? 11:31 < azule> hello everyone who said hi after I said hi back. 11:31 < karhell> Well, he _is_ in a secret base, on the moon 11:31 < Neil_Boekend> not as all knowing as davean 11:31 < balthasar_s> xkcd fora show you the preview of other posts. 11:31 -!- ED_virus_s has joined #ott 11:31 < Neil_Boekend> and that is a page that loads the picture 11:32 < azule> ED Virus sounds so wrong. look it up. 11:32 < Neil_Boekend> if the picture is on balthasar's server then that server logs the request 11:32 < balthasar_s> It's a good idea to disable in the browser sending the referrer information. 11:32 < Neil_Boekend> azule not as wrong as the Eternal Disfunction one 11:32 < azule> can I be the official spam bot? 11:32 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:33 < karhell> @balthasar : good idea; done 11:33 < balthasar_s> But if you do this then you may be not able too see some images because of anti-hotlinking protection on some servers. 11:34 < karhell> anti-hotlinking is a daft thing anyway 11:34 < balthasar_s> Firefox enables you to set sending referrer information only if it's on the same domain. 11:35 < balthasar_s> Then you only send it to the server thaty knows it anyway. 11:35 < balthasar_s> but you have to enter about: config for that. 11:35 < karhell> aaah, the scary config screen ^^ 11:35 < Neil_Boekend> Crome needs a plugin 11:36 < balthasar_s> Also, ggh, I can know many things but not that. 11:37 < taixzo> It is dawn here and my eyes are closing, so I must molpy down 11:37 < karhell> well, now you do ^^ 11:37 < azule> night, taixzo 11:37 < taixzo> goodnight everyone! 11:37 < karhell> night (or day), taixzo 11:37 < Neil_Boekend> have a good coma 11:37 < PraktiKante> good night! 11:37 -!- taixzo has left #ott [] 11:38 < azule> it's 2am for me...I had a nap at 10pm. :) 11:38 < azule> now you know 11:38 -!- ED_clone1190 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38 < ggh> Oh! good I thought you were saying that everyone who has made a cake that has been linked to on the OTT knows that I was looking for ***** home remedies 3 months ago. 11:38 < PraktiKante> that's the spirit! 11:38 -!- ED_futile has joined #ott 11:39 < balthasar_s> mrob's (I think) blindposter script removes all other posts from the preview page. 11:39 < azule> ggh, I rate your curse word at 5 stars 11:39 -!- ED_virus_s has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39 < Neil_Boekend> @ggh: no, most pictures are on the XKCD server, with redundakitties. 11:40 < karhell> which means that davean knows all about you ^^ 11:40 < Neil_Boekend> Davean can find how my chest looks. He knows all 11:40 < balthasar_s> And if they're not, they will know you saw the OTT, not the other pages. 11:41 < Neil_Boekend> but he probably does not know about those remedies 11:41 < Neil_Boekend> Google does btw 11:41 < Neil_Boekend> probably at least 11:41 < ED_futile> Because my hotdog is on github not my own server, it's github not me that knows when the few pages with hotlinked hotdog icons are visited 11:42 < karhell> indeed 11:42 < balthasar_s> Especially, that many pages have Google's javascript. 11:42 < balthasar_s> I block javascript by default and make some exceptions (I use NoScript) 11:42 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 11:42 < azule> irc is hard...where do I find the topic at hand? y'all seem to know a lot more than I do 11:43 < ED_leopad> Topic is up there 11:43 < ggh> google already knows that I'm a hypochondriac, and that I lose everything. 11:43 < balthasar_s> But you still might know things we don;t. 11:43 < ED_leopad> And now it's scrolled off 11:44 < ED_leopad> Google surely knows a lot about me 11:44 < karhell> I guess this is the topic at hand ? [Data Privacy Concerns Us All. Discuss.] 11:44 -!- ED_clone1190 has joined #ott 11:45 < balthasar_s> Google owns youtube. I upload films, sometimes. Google probably knows something. 11:45 < Neil_Boekend> yep 11:45 -!- ED_virus_s has joined #ott 11:45 < ED_virus_s> Still hopeless at giving relevant ads. I don't want to play Game of Fire: War Age! 11:46 < karhell> true, that ^^ 11:46 < ED_virus_s> not sure whether my messages get through 11:46 < ED_virus_s> Did that go twice? 11:46 < balthasar_s> Once. 11:46 < karhell> did what go ? 11:46 < balthasar_s> But I saw it twice. 11:46 < ED_virus_s> And did you see: 11:46 < balthasar_s> Once here 11:46 < ED_virus_s> Google surely knows a lot about me 11:46 < recording_all_this> And once here 11:47 < ED_virus_s> Sometimes it drop out right after sending 11:47 -!- ED_too has joined #ott 11:48 < azule> anyone still use duckduckgo? I don't anymore because I'm lazy and google is default search engine on mobile chrome..and there's no damn option to switch to ddg 11:48 <@Sustainabilizer> azule: Yep. 11:48 -!- ED_tribble_cookie has joined #ott 11:48 < karhell> set ddg as my default search engine at work 11:48 < Neil_Boekend> I haven't ever been non-lazy enough 11:48 < ED_tribble_cookie> argh 11:49 < karhell> EDs, EDs everywhere ! 11:49 < ED_tribble_cookie> DDG on my laptop but not tablet. Ought to. 11:49 -!- ED_futile has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:49 < ED_tribble_cookie> But leopad is google OS so they know anyway 11:50 < Neil_Boekend> cyanogen? 11:50 < balthasar_s> I didn't know they hve an OS. 11:50 < ED_tribble_cookie> So would DDG help privacy on google os? Maybe a little 11:50 < ED_tribble_cookie> Android! Google. 11:50 < ED_tribble_cookie> yeah i shouls cyanogen or similar 11:50 < ED_tribble_cookie> *should 11:51 < azule> google force signed me in to their search *checks* and I signed out and still am. so do they assuredly know? 11:51 < Neil_Boekend> parse error 11:51 < ED_tribble_cookie> Meanwhile around me: discussion about Kabbalah and now Hollywood 11:51 < azule> I'll parse error you! 11:51 < azule> ...*cough* 11:51 < Neil_Boekend> indeed you did 11:51 < karhell> parse me the error over there, will you ? 11:52 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 11:52 -!- ED_clone1190 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52 < Neil_Boekend> if you mean to ask whether Google knows what you are searching for even if you sign out then the answer is technically they can 11:52 <@Sustainabilizer> In the Outside I just got the question whether it's possible to enrich IRC by graphical avatars. Does anyone know? 11:53 < azule> hah, I never thought that "parsing" an error actually means reading the error... 11:53 < ED_leopad> who am i now? 11:53 < ED_leopad> Ah 11:53 < ED_leopad> The too many mes is annoying 11:53 < Neil_Boekend> Sust: you could rename yourself to ascii art 11:54 < azule> google can track even if not signed in, but it's not as valuable of information, I think 11:54 -!- ED_clone1190 has joined #ott 11:54 < balthasar_s> It's not impossible to make an IRC client that shows avatars associated with names. 11:54 < Neil_Boekend> Sustainabilizer: I just figured out that Pidging has tab completion for names 11:54 < ED_clone1190> The too many mes is annoying 11:54 <@Sustainabilizer> Neil_Boekend: So has irssi. 11:54 < azule> why do they and facebook and others want you to sign in to everything and use your real name? must be more valuable... 11:54 < balthasar_s> I don't know if anyone made it. 11:54 <@Sustainabilizer> azule: Exactly. 11:55 -!- ED_virus_s has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:55 < balthasar_s> Also, facebook, 11:55 <@Sustainabilizer> I just duckduckwent /avatar_set which is supported by kvirc. 11:55 < Neil_Boekend> real name is hardly enfoced 11:55 -!- ED_virus_s has joined #ott 11:55 < Neil_Boekend> or they really believe my real name is "Not Relevant" 11:56 -!- ED_too has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:56 < Neil_Boekend> or "Testy McTest" 11:56 < Neil_Boekend> or "lhdwjlegkklefgbhrqljwughk" 11:56 < balthasar_s> It's often said that "you don't have to use facebook if you don't want to." 11:56 < balthasar_s> that's true but 11:56 < Neil_Boekend> that is patently untrue 11:56 < karhell> And indeed, I don't 11:57 < Neil_Boekend> Facebook tracks even those without an account 11:57 <@Sustainabilizer> balthasar_s: ... but? 11:57 < Neil_Boekend> with those facebook thumb images (and associated JavaScript) 11:57 -!- ED_droid_6 has joined #ott 11:57 < Neil_Boekend> that you find everywhere 11:57 < balthasar_s> there are situations where you are "forced", 11:57 < ED_droid_6> But which name? 11:58 < ED_droid_6> I have many 11:58 < balthasar_s> I, for example, am a student. 11:58 < balthasar_s> There are other student in my group. 11:58 < ED_droid_6> i gues my avatar goes on anything starting with ED_ 11:58 < ED_droid_6> Forced what? I missed it. 11:59 < Neil_Boekend> Facebug 11:59 < balthasar_s> Sometimes, someone finds, some important information. 11:59 < balthasar_s> And wants to share it with others. 11:59 -!- Angelastic has joined #ott 11:59 -!- ED_tribble_cookie has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:59 < karhell> aah, right, you are on facebug through the profiles of others 11:59 < Neil_Boekend> Hi Angelastic 11:59 < balthasar_s> Many of them announce if on a faceboug group only. 11:59 < Angelastic> hi. :) 11:59 < karhell> Hi, Angelastic ! 11:59 < Angelastic> Hi, karhell! 12:00 -!- ED_bug has joined #ott 12:00 < balthasar_s> And then assume that everyone else knows it. 12:00 <@Sustainabilizer> Hi, Angelastic! 12:00 < Angelastic> Hi, Sustainabilizer! Wow, this IRC network allows seaish nicks. 12:00 <@Sustainabilizer> balthasar_s: I just discussed _exactly this_ with an Outside person. 12:01 < Neil_Boekend> Luckily my IRL friends have had a forum maintained by my brother in law. No needless tracking there 12:01 < Neil_Boekend> have had forever 12:01 < balthasar_s> Or they want to make a decision together and again they use a facebook group only. 12:01 -!- ED_debug has joined #ott 12:01 < ggh> Angelastic! Hi! 12:01 < Angelastic> what's this about being a facebug through the profiles of others? 12:01 < ED_debug> Yeah, it can be impossibke for some to not be on facebug. 12:01 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:01 < Angelastic> oooh, facebug. Now I understand. 12:01 < karhell> Indeed, facebug-only decisions are a pretty big embuggerance 12:01 < svenman> Hi Angelastic! 12:02 < Angelastic> Hi svenman! 12:02 < Neil_Boekend> I took steps to make it hard to track me for facebug but these plugins are not used by everyone 12:02 < ED_debug> I was at a camp where some wanted everyone's facebug to stay in contact 12:02 < balthasar_s> I can choose to ignore facebook but then I'm left out of many information and decisions. 12:02 -!- ED_clone1190 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:02 < balthasar_s> Some of us don't like it but we're not able to convince others. 12:03 < karhell> @ED in those cases, I just give my old MSN adress ^^ 12:03 < Angelastic> *gulp* is recording_all_this recording all this? *stops picking nose* 12:03 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 12:03 < recording_all_this> I'm balthasar_s, 12:03 < ED_leopad> but i said no i don't. Cos i didn't really want to anyway. So it was a good excuse to be antisocial. 12:03 -!- ED_virus_s has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:03 < recording_all_this> I want to read it all later 12:03 <@Sustainabilizer> Angelastic: Not only recording_all_this. Everyone can do that. Most do. 12:03 < ED_leopad> Me too 12:04 < ED_leopad> it's like swiss cheese to me 12:04 < Neil_Boekend> Angelastic: yes and you could have picked a better shirt. 12:04 < Angelastic> mmm, Swiss cheese. 12:04 < karhell> Bah, swiss cheese is overrated. 12:04 < karhell> Try a good Pouligny-St-Pierre, some time ^^ 12:04 < Angelastic> pff, what do you have against Apple Developer Connection? 12:05 < karhell> wha ? 12:05 < balthasar_s> And it's more sad because there was a nice forum for this kind of things some years ago 12:05 -!- ED_clone1190 has joined #ott 12:05 < Angelastic> I do like smoked Gouda. But Gruyère *is* very yummy. 12:05 < karhell> ^^ 12:05 < ED_clone1190> Cheese good 12:05 < balthasar_s> NNobody Nobody uses it any more. 12:06 < Angelastic> (I'm wearing an Apple Developer Connection shirt. Admittedly, it's the same one I wore yesterday, so I can see why one would object.) 12:06 < Angelastic> mmmm, cheese. 12:06 < karhell> oh, right ^^ 12:06 < balthasar_s> Luckily, I'm graduating soon, no more facebug for me! 12:06 < karhell> Hooray for graduating_s ^^ 12:06 <@Sustainabilizer> balthasar_s: What was a nice forum? 12:06 -!- ED_droid_6 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:06 < Angelastic> how much longer does the Cönnchen go? One hour? Three hours? I didn't pay sufficient attention to the time zones. 12:07 < ED_clone1190> :D graduation good 12:07 < karhell> @sutainabilizer What was used in stead of fcebug, I guess 12:07 <@Sustainabilizer> Angelastic: Until 15:00 CEST. ~4 newpix from now. 12:07 < azule> I can't ketchup everything I missed while I was away because when someone posts i auto scroll to the bottom.... 12:07 < Neil_Boekend> muhahaha 12:07 < Angelastic> isn't that 3 newpix from now? 12:08 < Neil_Boekend> azule: most clients allow you to disable it 12:08 < Neil_Boekend> nope, 4 12:08 <@Sustainabilizer> Yes. Sorry for the tpyo. 12:08 -!- ED_bug has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:08 < azule> I"m just using the webclient, N_B...I didn't see an option to change it 12:08 < Neil_Boekend> ah. 12:08 -!- ED_virus_s has joined #ott 12:08 -!- ED_virus_s is now known as ED_resistance 12:08 < ED_resistance> :D graduation good, would recommend 12:09 < karhell> a cludgy slution would be to hold the slide bar 12:09 < azule> Everyone redundapost what you said a moment ago... :P 12:09 < ED_resistance> Would be better if my old clones were kicked much faster 12:09 < Neil_Boekend> azule: Pidgin lets you blitz 12:09 < karhell> "what you said a moment ago... :P" 12:09 < ED_resistance> i redundapost because it's necessary :( 12:10 < Neil_Boekend> Ah. 12:10 < Angelastic> but it's 12:08 CEST now. Unless the daylight saving toggle is different. 12:10 < azule> sometimes unnecessary is necessary 12:10 -!- ED_debug has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:10 < azule> ED misses all my jokes. :( 12:10 < ED_resistance> I couldn't tell if it was a joke. 12:11 < Neil_Boekend> Angelastic: http://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/cet 12:11 < karhell> ED is struggling with multiple account disorder right now, be lenient on the jokes ^^ 12:11 < ED_resistance> Maybe you need to repeat your jokes redundantly 12:11 < Neil_Boekend> Angelastic: CET, not CEST 12:11 < balthasar_s> Sustainabilizer, there was a nice forum for discussing student related stuff on the faculty of Electronics. 12:12 < karhell> I'm out for lunch. See you in half a nopix 12:12 < Angelastic> But Sustainabilizer said 'Until 15:00 CEST' 12:12 -!- ED_leopad has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:12 -!- karhell is now known as karhell_afk_lunch 12:12 < Neil_Boekend> hmm, in the post he said CET 12:12 < ED_resistance> Two more NP? 12:12 < Angelastic> oh well, CEST la vie. 12:12 < azule> @ED...they're not jokes....I say "I kid"...what do you call that? *sigh* 12:12 < ED_resistance> vitsägen ja! 12:12 < Neil_Boekend> I dislike all the weird time zones btw. Just gimme GMT +/- x 12:12 < Angelastic> there's at least three more NP; we're debating whether there are 4. 12:13 < Angelastic> It's a bit epsilon to use a Time zone that is not in use anywhere, but if it means we get an extra newpix, I'll allow it. 12:14 -!- ED_leopad has joined #ott 12:14 < Neil_Boekend> You really need a standard timezone that has no dailight savings 12:14 < ED_leopad> I don't know when you said "I kid" azule, i wasn't here maybe 12:14 < ED_leopad> yeah Neil_Boekend 12:14 < Angelastic> the post on facebug says CET DST, which I think is a fancy way of saying CEST. 12:14 < svenman> The radio station I have on is just playing "Time In A Bottle" :-) 12:15 < ED_leopad> Related! 12:15 -!- ED_clone1190 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:15 < Angelastic> It also gives a UTC time which aligns with the CEST hypothesis. 12:15 -!- ED_clone1190 has joined #ott 12:15 < ED_clone1190> Related! But we need a bottle. 12:15 < Angelastic> But in the e**, I guess we can stay here as long as we like. 12:15 < svenman> Can't get more standard that UTC... 12:16 < Angelastic> hopefully not a steambottle! (ugh) 12:16 < ED_clone1190> I have a plastic milk jug. 12:16 < svenman> s/that/than/ 12:16 < balthasar_s> And, yes, facebug is doing tracking too. 12:17 < balthasar_s> many pages have facebug's javascript 12:17 -!- ED_virus_s has joined #ott 12:17 < ED_virus_s> Tupperware. No steam. I think. 12:17 < Angelastic> so most information points to there being 3 more newpix, but Sustainabilizer said 4, and I'll stick around for 4 because that means proving the Cönnchen is more sustainable. 12:17 < Neil_Boekend> Angelastic: http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_pritchard_invents_a_water_filter?language=en 12:17 < balthasar_s> facebug's